Penguin Deus wrote:~it just boils down to having a thriving community that talks to each other and pays attention to the scene at large. FROM SOFTWARE already has a proven winner in that regard: Dark Souls and Demon's Souls. Both games have far bigger communities than AC, and both have etiquette and gentleman's bans that are universally abided by.
I get where Griffon is coming from, because we (Cali players like he and I) had one of the biggest scenes in the country before online was available, especially during the hay day of AC games. Tons and tons of people to play all the time, and all of them were like-minded in the sense that they saw what AC could be and tried to play it with that idea in mind. To go from where it was, to what it is now, is pretty depressing.
Before, with AC, the only way to prevent/stop that was either by convincing people they needed to play a certain way to get the most out of the game (i.e. tourney rules and the like) or show them there was another way to play that was nearly as effective. Both are much easier said than done, especially when you consider how personal communicating used to be within the scene. I mean you could talk to the best players in the state on a message board at length during the week, and then that same weekend head out to their place and put everything you guys talked about on full display. You just don't get that anymore. Not in the same way.
FromCheng wrote:The mindset of a veteran AC player was that of old school honourable battle. We would be the guys who wore bright red and stood and line and fire our muskets, or the samurai who when one on one. The mindset of the newer player, however, is that of modern day warfare. Anything is permitted, and do everything that is necessary to win, no matter the costs.
Its a disturbing trend I tend to see. Newer players show a disregard to the spirit of Armored Core and even basic sportsmanship. They will use the most CC, the most OP designs because it lets them win, and think they are skilled when they hard counter everyone else. I've fought many matches where after the first one, they brought a second design that almost completely hard countered mine, and if they didn't succeed that time, they would try again with another design.
They will steal territory, boost, and use less than fair methods (DDosing, lag switching, patch glitch abusing) in order to get their name on the map, and claim they are better than everyone else. You know its bad when your game resembes nothing but a game of politics. And worst of all, they refuse to listen to reason or even different opinion on the matter, claiming that because they spent 60$ they should be able to play the game any way they please everyone else be damned, and that their is no such rule telling them they should play a specific way. I kid you not, some of the people scoff whenever they hear of a "ban list" as if it were some kind of blasphemy in gaming.
I've talked to Cleric and a few other people and ban lists are nothing new in AC, and last time I checked, nothing new in other games as well. When you have that mindset flooding a game, the sense of community ceases to exist. It merely becomes a giant sea of players playing ACV with nothing else in common. No sport or spirit, only the desire to win. No urge to forge friendships or camaraderie, no desire to be original, no desire to actually work hard and attempt to train and increase skill, no desire to actually improve, only the desire to victory.
Ok, so my other topic and many of its replies have given me a lot more to think about. Armored Core has been my favorite game series for over a decade, and I'm not quite ready to let it go just yet. I've got one last idea to try and salvage what we can from AC. In the past, we took what FROM gave us and molded it into something great. We need to do it again.
My idea is an alternative tournament-based scene, ACV: Underground. Or if one is feeling a bit ostentatious perhaps Raven Underground, due to it being based on tournament rules from the old "Raven" AC games. The basic idea is to create our own forum-based scene away from the boosters and tryhards. Pretty much everything except the fights themselves will take place on the forums, hopefully various forums everywhere.
The idea I have is that various teams will formally challenge other teams from other forums or from the same forum. Set up a specific time to meet up, so that would hopefully eliminate ACVs whole "wait 20 minutes for no opponents" problem. We can set up some sort of leaderboard on the forums, I don't know if you'd want to have it descending with the top team(s) on top, or maybe simply in alphabetical order or something like that. We can even have the leaderboard record only wins, so nobody has to worry about a low win/loss record.
These no longer matter. Let the "Core of Duty" players have their online leaderboards where they can pretend everyone marvels at their skill. What really matters now will be kept track of on the forums.
I've got a few ideas.
ENFORCED BAN LIST/RATIO SYSTEM:
This is first and foremost needed to balance the game, as it has always been in the PS1-2 days. We've got a couple options. We can go for a simple ban list like old tournaments called for, or we can try out some kind of ratio system. The idea behind that being that each part is given a numerical value based on its performance, and the sum of a whole AC cannot go above a certain number, meaning the more powerful game breaking parts aren't off-limits, but one would have to equip some other low-tier parts to balance it all out. This could result in some more diversity and be more interesting, but admittedly it would be much harder to plan all that out.
HALF-HOUR CHALLENGE WINDOW:
When a team challenges another and sets up a meeting time, the teams should both arrive within half an hour of that time. If one team does not show, the match is forfeit and point to the other team, unless neither show of course.
BATTLES WOULD BE 2/3:
As with older tournaments the team battles would be decided by best two out of three. This would keep the action going on at least a bit longer than one quickly decided victory. The teams would be able to react and adjust to each others strategies.
I'm not sure of this one, but maybe each main team could have one area that is "theirs". Whichever team is challenged, the match takes place in their area, like sports teams playing "home" and "away" games. I'm not sure if this could give certain teams too much of an advantage though, as I hear some maps, such as Mining Sector, are notoriously difficult to invade.
If this works out, we could have a new sub-section of the forum for it, with threads for challenges & results, leaderboard, a list of participating teams, general discussion, etc.
I'd love to see this happen, but it's going to require the help and participation of several members from several forums, assuming they haven't already sold their copy. This may be Armored Cores last chance. So, who's in?